I know! Although I <3 Jackie's obituary, I was NOT happy with what she confirmed! #(I'm sorry for the crypticness, but I don't want to spoil anyone who without having seen the ep)
But when Chris mentioned Sam? I was just totally squeeing!!
I did enjoy the episode, but that gratuitous piece of information seriously soured it for me. It just spoilt so much in three little words. *is still upset*
Mind you, Jackie didn't say who he'd been loved by...
Oh, the Chris bit - didn't he say he'd learnt something from Sam? It's very odd, Sam just wasn't mentioned for the whole of series one, except that one little bit in 1.01, and now we're getting all this stuff? Must be a reason.
Yeah, that's the one. Except you put it so much more politely.
OK, I can see they want to serve a particular section of the fandom, but they have proved they are well aware there are other views of the world. So what's the point? Some things should not be canon. (Not unless they come out how I want - which doesn't exactly seem likely - and then they can be as canon as they like.)
Mind you, I heard nothing tonight to add weight to the fact that he really is dead *lives in hope* And I agree it was a good episode - Jackie was great, and I adored Gene's protectiveness over her and the baby, especially when he thought it was his. Best line? "I had to tie a pencil to it."
Because I am still so wrapped up in the Sam/Gene love, I just ignore that part. I don't want to call Annie a beard because she was much more than that to Sam, (and she was so smart and lovely) but I can't come up with a better word for her. Plus, I was still in squee mode over Chris FINALLY mentioning Sam. Chris definitely learned to be a better copper directly due to Sam's influence, and it was bothering me that he never mentioned him. (Chris takes the tape recorder into the room for the Billy Kemble interrogation and he flat out asked Sam for advice on women.) I also found it significant that after Chris mentions Sam the camera turns to Alex and Jackie discussing him and Gene is out of frame.
I've been ignoring all the Gene/Alex - although I do wonder what it means that I was perfectly happy for him to have had a very sexy night with Jackie Queen - but I am very peeved that they have made it so difficult for us to ignore Sam/Annie. Presumably it's either needed later or they thought everyone would like it.
We're suddenly gettings lots of Sam mentions, having spent the whole of series one pretending he and Annie never existed. But you're right, it never made sense that Chris wouldn't mention him. And you'd think that Ray would have made the occasional remarks about Alex reminding him of Sam.
Did you mean it's significant that Gene is out of frame, or that Alex and Jackie are discussing Sam?
I think it's significant for both reasons. It's odd that Alex and Jackie are discussing Sam at all. Alex knows the backstory of their relationship through Sam's tapes, but it makes me wonder just how much info Sam put into the tapes because the discussion of Gene and Jackie's relationship didn't directly deal with the hostage taking. I think it shows how much 1973 was changing Sam because in the beginning he seemed to be so much by the book that if it wasn't directly related, he wouldn't have mentioned it at all. I think of ep1 with Maya - "Look around you. What use are feelings in this room?" And in my mind, I'd like to think the camera isn't on Gene because he was having a bit of an emo moment written on his face and it took him a second to pull himself together.
You've probably found out by now - they're discussing it openly over at a2ashes because over there they think it's a good thing - but I'll PM you just in case.
YES. THIS. EXACTLY. (Hi, here from the newsletter. *waves*)
Some things should be left up to the viewers' imaginations.
ETA: After some thought, I think I'm going with the view that this is Alex's coma, and everything that happens here is in her own mind. This is just the happy ending that she envisions for Sam, not knowing the real story and all. *nods firmly*
Hi! (I've been out all day - didn't realise it would be in the newsletter!)
Some things should be left up to the viewers' imaginations.
I'm totally with you on that one. Rusty has absolutely the right idea on stuff like that - he doesn't fill in the gaps unless it definitely serves the story, because he thinks people have a right to own the bits in between and fill them how they see fit. I seem to remember him saying something like it increases people's investment in the programme.
That's a very interesting point about it just being Alex's idea of a happy ending. *nods even more firmly*
Years ago I was on holiday with my then long-term partner, and he got us tied up with some fortune-teller. The bloke gave us all the usual stuff, then said we would return in a year, married and with a baby - presumably, as you suggest, thinking that's what we would consider a good future. Come to think of it, my reaction of utter horror might have been one of the factors in us breaking up less than a year later...
Oh, I know. Chris' mention of Sam was wonderful, and then THAT revelation quite literally made my heart sink into my stomach. Time to slap another layer of uncanon between A2A and LoM... *sigh*
On the other hand, I can't help but feel there is still some sort of weird disconnect between Sam's mysterious death and how that information is coming to Alex. Now that Ray is becoming so suspect (and god, that annoys me too), I now find his being the one to give Alex the 'details' of Sam's death more than a little dubious, especially since Gene has never confirmed it. And there was something a bit weird about that Alex-Jackie exchange where Alex asks if she ever saw Sam again after 'the siege' (1.06?) and Jackie just goes 'What?' and the scene moves on. I'm really not sure what to make of that, but I could almost believe that this Jackie has different memories of Sam or something... *is still cracking crack-brained schemes to save her Sam/Gene*
Hey sev...Can you shoot me an email over these developments? I haven't watched season two after being really disenchanted by season one, but am really curious as to what everyone is talking about. You know I don't care about spoilers or anything, I just want the scoop. If you get the time, sweetie :)
Sure thing, gorgeous! I'll fire you an email this afternoon after physio... how much info did you want, just the present spoiler-of-woe or should I feel free to sum up S2 so far...?
It's definitely worth watching imo; apart from the recent reveal of doom, it's been very, very good most of the time. I'd rate this series at 90% enjoyment so far (LOM 100%, A2A series one 40%). Apart from a more naturalistic Alex, Gene is more his LOM self, and bloody good-looking with it.
Hey!! Thanks for the info :) I LOVE LoM and consider it pretty much my fave show ever, so when I truly didn't enjoy A2A I was sad. I'd hoped for something more akin to the original and longed for my Gene, you know?
THAT revelation quite literally made my heart sink into my stomach
I was so annoyed (could you tell?). I was watching live, and OH was in the room, otherwise I would have paused the thing and gone for a mega-stomp about, shouting and cursing and generally sulking majorly for ten minutes before carrying on watching. I really did feel someone had switched off my sunshine there.
But your point is very interesting - Gene hasn't told Alex anything about Sam at all, not even back in 1.01 when she said she knew him. He just said "explains a lot" or something, which makes simple sense given their personalities.
That siege comment was interesting (is it technically a siege if the people inside start it? Back in LOM it was called a hostage situation, I believe.
Also, I know a lot has to be edited for length (God, the temptation to say "Gene's dick" there, and was it just me or did he have a stiffy when he was stood on the table putting the wire in the ceiling? haven't had a chance to rewatch yet). /hormonal ramble BUT why have we never heard before that Alex "knows" that Sam married Annie?
Gene's silence on Sam has always struck me as one of the more interesting elements on A2A - I mean, how weird is it that Ray is the one to explain how Sam died? At first I thought it supported some manner of Gene-in-a-coma theory to go that road (particularly if Gene's in a coma because he was in that same car accident as Sam, which makes way more sense than Sam driving alone anyway), but at this rate it's anyone's bloody guess what's going on. I just can't help but feel that, if pushed to that point, Gene's story of Sam's death would somehow vary from whatever Alex has heard from Ray and Jackie.
As for where Alex is getting what she "knows" about Sam and Annie (psst, your spoiler is showing), that's something else that baffles me, as it could only have been an off-screen conversation she had with Gene, Ray or Chris. Makes you wonder what else Alex "knows" about Sam's seven years that hasn't been revealed, but again, it also makes for sloppy storytelling.
You probably know by now, but anyway, Jackie Queen turns up, pregnant, and tells Gene it's probably his. (She finally tells him it's not, but not until after he's proposed.) Alex and Jackie have a conversation about Sam, and Jackie asks Alex if she knew him. Alex says "Yes; he married Annie" and then goes on to discuss the fact that they had no children. We don't get told where she got this information from.
I was just really annoyed because being a committed Sam/Gene slasher, I just didn't want it shoved in my face that he'd married Annie. Plus, it's just boring and predictable.
So sorry again that I missed your comment. The only private internet time I get nowadays is in the middle of the night, and the brain just doesn't function like it should.
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branchandroot
(no subject)
Date: 2009-05-11 09:28 pm (UTC)Overall, a good ep though I thought (much better than 2x03 for the histrionics at the very least...)
(no subject)
Date: 2009-05-11 09:31 pm (UTC)#(I'm sorry for the crypticness, but I don't want to spoil anyone who without having seen the ep)
But when Chris mentioned Sam? I was just totally squeeing!!
(no subject)
Date: 2009-05-11 11:04 pm (UTC)Mind you, Jackie didn't say who he'd been loved by...
Oh, the Chris bit - didn't he say he'd learnt something from Sam? It's very odd, Sam just wasn't mentioned for the whole of series one, except that one little bit in 1.01, and now we're getting all this stuff? Must be a reason.
(no subject)
Date: 2009-05-11 11:00 pm (UTC)OK, I can see they want to serve a particular section of the fandom, but they have proved they are well aware there are other views of the world. So what's the point? Some things should not be canon. (Not unless they come out how I want - which doesn't exactly seem likely - and then they can be as canon as they like.)
Mind you, I heard nothing tonight to add weight to the fact that he really is dead *lives in hope* And I agree it was a good episode - Jackie was great, and I adored Gene's protectiveness over her and the baby, especially when he thought it was his. Best line? "I had to tie a pencil to it."
(no subject)
Date: 2009-05-12 02:26 am (UTC)Plus, I was still in squee mode over Chris FINALLY mentioning Sam. Chris definitely learned to be a better copper directly due to Sam's influence, and it was bothering me that he never mentioned him. (Chris takes the tape recorder into the room for the Billy Kemble interrogation and he flat out asked Sam for advice on women.) I also found it significant that after Chris mentions Sam the camera turns to Alex and Jackie discussing him and Gene is out of frame.
(no subject)
Date: 2009-05-12 05:47 pm (UTC)We're suddenly gettings lots of Sam mentions, having spent the whole of series one pretending he and Annie never existed. But you're right, it never made sense that Chris wouldn't mention him. And you'd think that Ray would have made the occasional remarks about Alex reminding him of Sam.
Did you mean it's significant that Gene is out of frame, or that Alex and Jackie are discussing Sam?
(no subject)
Date: 2009-05-13 01:36 am (UTC)And in my mind, I'd like to think the camera isn't on Gene because he was having a bit of an emo moment written on his face and it took him a second to pull himself together.
(no subject)
Date: 2009-05-12 03:00 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2009-05-12 05:37 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2009-05-12 11:17 am (UTC)Some things should be left up to the viewers' imaginations.
ETA: After some thought, I think I'm going with the view that this is Alex's coma, and everything that happens here is in her own mind. This is just the happy ending that she envisions for Sam, not knowing the real story and all. *nods firmly*
(no subject)
Date: 2009-05-12 05:57 pm (UTC)Some things should be left up to the viewers' imaginations.
I'm totally with you on that one. Rusty has absolutely the right idea on stuff like that - he doesn't fill in the gaps unless it definitely serves the story, because he thinks people have a right to own the bits in between and fill them how they see fit. I seem to remember him saying something like it increases people's investment in the programme.
That's a very interesting point about it just being Alex's idea of a happy ending. *nods even more firmly*
Years ago I was on holiday with my then long-term partner, and he got us tied up with some fortune-teller. The bloke gave us all the usual stuff, then said we would return in a year, married and with a baby - presumably, as you suggest, thinking that's what we would consider a good future. Come to think of it, my reaction of utter horror might have been one of the factors in us breaking up less than a year later...
(no subject)
Date: 2009-05-12 12:40 pm (UTC)On the other hand, I can't help but feel there is still some sort of weird disconnect between Sam's mysterious death and how that information is coming to Alex. Now that Ray is becoming so suspect (and god, that annoys me too), I now find his being the one to give Alex the 'details' of Sam's death more than a little dubious, especially since Gene has never confirmed it. And there was something a bit weird about that Alex-Jackie exchange where Alex asks if she ever saw Sam again after 'the siege' (1.06?) and Jackie just goes 'What?' and the scene moves on. I'm really not sure what to make of that, but I could almost believe that this Jackie has different memories of Sam or something... *is still cracking crack-brained schemes to save her Sam/Gene*
(no subject)
Date: 2009-05-12 01:57 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2009-05-12 02:52 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2009-05-12 03:04 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2009-05-12 06:09 pm (UTC)It's definitely worth watching imo; apart from the recent reveal of doom, it's been very, very good most of the time. I'd rate this series at 90% enjoyment so far (LOM 100%, A2A series one 40%). Apart from a more naturalistic Alex, Gene is more his LOM self, and bloody good-looking with it.
(no subject)
Date: 2009-05-12 06:28 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2009-05-12 06:06 pm (UTC)I was so annoyed (could you tell?). I was watching live, and OH was in the room, otherwise I would have paused the thing and gone for a mega-stomp about, shouting and cursing and generally sulking majorly for ten minutes before carrying on watching. I really did feel someone had switched off my sunshine there.
But your point is very interesting - Gene hasn't told Alex anything about Sam at all, not even back in 1.01 when she said she knew him. He just said "explains a lot" or something, which makes simple sense given their personalities.
That siege comment was interesting (is it technically a siege if the people inside start it? Back in LOM it was called a hostage situation, I believe.
Also, I know a lot has to be edited for length
(God, the temptation to say "Gene's dick" there, and was it just me or did he have a stiffy when he was stood on the table putting the wire in the ceiling? haven't had a chance to rewatch yet). /hormonal ramble BUT why have we never heard before that Alex "knows" that Sam married Annie?(no subject)
Date: 2009-05-12 06:51 pm (UTC)As for where Alex is getting what she "knows" about Sam and Annie (psst, your spoiler is showing), that's something else that baffles me, as it could only have been an off-screen conversation she had with Gene, Ray or Chris. Makes you wonder what else Alex "knows" about Sam's seven years that hasn't been revealed, but again, it also makes for sloppy storytelling.
(no subject)
Date: 2009-05-13 11:57 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2009-05-17 01:12 am (UTC)You probably know by now, but anyway, Jackie Queen turns up, pregnant, and tells Gene it's probably his. (She finally tells him it's not, but not until after he's proposed.) Alex and Jackie have a conversation about Sam, and Jackie asks Alex if she knew him. Alex says "Yes; he married Annie" and then goes on to discuss the fact that they had no children. We don't get told where she got this information from.
I was just really annoyed because being a committed Sam/Gene slasher, I just didn't want it shoved in my face that he'd married Annie. Plus, it's just boring and predictable.
So sorry again that I missed your comment. The only private internet time I get nowadays is in the middle of the night, and the brain just doesn't function like it should.
I hope you're keeping OK.
♥